Loving God. Loving People.

#001 - Wishful vs. Certain Hope

August 10, 2020
Loving God. Loving People.
#001 - Wishful vs. Certain Hope
Show Notes Transcript

Hope is the belief that tomorrow is going to be better than today. Do you feel like you are living from a place of hope? At this cultural moment, we feel less like the United States of America and more like the “Divided” States of America wondering where God is. Jump into this crucial conversation with Robert and Chad as we talk about hope.

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Speaker 1:
Welcome to the Loving God, Loving People podcast, a podcast where we dig deeper into what it looks like to live a life where in the end, all that matters is God and people. Each week, we will have candid and authentic conversations about how every day brings a fresh beginning and that the best is yet to come as we work together to help fulfill the mission that Jesus has given us. Now, here's our host.

Robert Watson:
Well hey everyone, welcome. This is something we're trying out that is brand new with all the quarantine, COVID, all that. We suddenly became YouTubers and now we're going to be podcasters. And so we're going to give this a go.

Chad Moore:
That was so inspirational Robert.

Robert Watson:
Was it?

Chad Moore:
I have never been more motivated for anything.

Robert Watson:
I'm looking right now and I can see our listeners are just... It's through the roof. It just keeps climbing this introduction.

Chad Moore:
I'm so motivated right now to have this conversation. You've inspired me thinking.

Robert Watson:
Good, good. Yeah. I was hoping that this would go well, especially this introduction, because we're talking about hope. And as we've been planning out all of our series, typically what we do is we get away for a day and we plan out, "Hey, here's what we feel like we want to talk about throughout the year." We put everything in a spreadsheet and we're excited and we're like, "Yeah, this is going to be great." This year, it's been a little bit different.

Chad Moore:
Yeah. That all changed six months ago with COVID. And we've just been taking it day by day and praying through. Still picking series at a time.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
But in current reality with everything going on, man, it just felt like we need to talk about hope.

Robert Watson:
Yeah. So talk us through. What was your thought process as you're looking at life and you're just trying to gauge society and wind and all that stuff and were like, "Okay, this is where we're going to go?" How'd you get to that conclusion?

Chad Moore:
Well hope is the belief that tomorrow is going to be better than today.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
And I don't know that any of us are waking up in the morning thinking that.

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
That tomorrow is going to be better than today, especially the whole pandemic and it's hard to know what reality is.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
Reality is determined by which news source you get it from.

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
So I try to listen to everybody and then divide by two. And then hopefully, that's reality. As well as I make phone calls to people we have that work in hospitals and all that. So the whole pandemic thing, it's hard to know what's really going on. And then you add racism, which is very real and horrible and is a massive sin issue. And so you had those things take place, the riots, all that. And it feels like to me, because I wake up certain days and I'm not feeling very hopeful.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
It doesn't feel like the United States of America anymore. It feels like the divided States of America.

Robert Watson:
Sure.

Chad Moore:
Right? We're supposed to be, and I'm going to be a preacher for a second, we're supposed to be one nation under God and we're a divided nation wondering where God is.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
And so just in praying and thinking through it, our ultimate hope is in Jesus. There's a certain hope there. But when our faith is tested, like it is in current days, we tend to drift. And just praying and thinking about it, and I was like, "Man, let's focus on hope as a church, not just on a weekend, but for 40 days. I mean let's really dig in what does the Bible say about hope?" So we started this thing, 40 Days of Hope. I'm asking everybody to be there on the weekends, whether it's online or in the room when we come back to that, to get in a group either online or in somebody's home and in person, do those daily devos Monday through Friday and then those prayer times with us Wednesday at 7:00. But for 40 days we're going to focus on hope.

Robert Watson:
So I'm going to pause you just real quick. Why 40 days? Because you see that throughout the Bible, you see 40 days, 40 days, 40 days. What is it about 40 days that makes it so special?

Chad Moore:
Well man, it just sounded spiritual. Yeah. So 40 is a special number in the Bible. 40 is actually a number of preparation.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
So Moses goes up on the mountain and is there 40 days, 40 nights, and he gets the law.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
Jesus fasts for 40 days, 40 nights and his ministry begins, which is the Ministry of Grace.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
Of course, when God cleansed the earth with the flood back in the Old Testament, we've made that story of Noah's Ark goofy because we put it on children's walls and all that, but God wiped out the earth with a flood. It's not a cute thing.

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
But the cleansing of the earth was 40 days, 40 nights. It was preparation for the new. And so that number 40 prepares us for the new. And so what I'm hoping for our people, frankly what I'm hoping for my family and in my own life is this preparation for the new.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
Because I do think we have brighter days ahead of us.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
So this is an opportunity just to take all of that hope and experience the newness that Jesus has for us.

Robert Watson:
So how does somebody know if they have hope or don't have hope? What are the indicators that, "Okay. Maybe I'm feeling a little hopeless," other than just the emotion or yeah, "I feel hopeless today?" Is there any sign, any indicator of, "No, that person has hope, this person doesn't have hope," that you could identify?

Chad Moore:
Yeah. Well I mean look at their face, right? I mean people that have some hope tend to smile every so often. There's actually three kinds of hope. I'm going to talk about this in the sermon, but there's three kinds of hope and there's one that we really want to rest in in the three. So the first hope is wishful hope. This is like when you're late for a meeting or whatever, you're driving and you're sitting at the red light and you're hoping that thing turns green, right? A wishful hope is when you go and buy a lottery ticket and you're hoping you're going to win. I'm going to say this in the sermon, but I mean you got a better chance of being struck by lightning twice.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
Than you do of winning the lottery. I love everybody, but it's like Dumb and Dumber when Lloyd's talking to Mary and he's like, "So what chance do I have here?" And she's like, "One in a million." And he's like, "You're saying there's a chance." So if you buy a lottery ticket, that's between you and Jesus. But in essence, you're saying there's a chance.

Robert Watson:
That's wishful thinking. That's wishful hope.

Chad Moore:
Yeah. And quite frankly, it's worthless.

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
Okay? The second hope is expectant hope. Expectant hope is better than wishful hope because expectant hope is you reap what you sow.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
So if I plant a garden in my backyard, I'm expecting there to be an outcome.

Robert Watson:
Based on past experiences, based on what you've seen-

Chad Moore:
Of how life works. Yeah. I'm working it.

Robert Watson:
There's some logic involved.

Chad Moore:
So I'm not wishing it, with expectant hope I'm working it. So I'm filling out the job application, I'm working out in the gym. There's an expectant hope for better days ahead and I'm working it.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
But those things don't always come to pass. Sometimes life gets in the way, it rains really hard and the seeds wash away, the garden gets destroyed by animals, bugs, whatever.

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
So that's expectant hope. What we're talking about for 40 days is called certain hope.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
And the certain hope of the scriptures is God can't lie. There are some things God can't do. God can't get lost, right? He's already there.

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
Okay, because he's everywhere at the same time. So what can God not do? Well God can't lie because it goes totally against his nature, who he is. He's Holy. And so there's thousands of promises, I don't know the exact number, but I think it's right around 7,000 promises in the Bible. Some already have come to pass, some of them are coming to pass, some of them will come to pass.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
But God can't lie. So we have a certain hope in Jesus. And that's the hope we're talking about for the next 40 days. It's not wishful thinking, it's not optimism, it's not even expectant, it's not that we're working it. And it could come to pass or maybe not. It's a certain hope in what you want to worship, what you want to ground your life in is something that is certain.

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
And man, we need that right now. Everybody's faith is going to be tested. So what do you do when your faith is tested? Well you take hold of the certain hope that you have in Jesus.

Robert Watson:
Yeah. Yeah. So far so good on all the promises of the Bible, all the things about Jesus.

Chad Moore:
Absolutely.

Robert Watson:
All hundreds of prophecies and all of that. So the Bible's got a perfect track record. So we're just [inaudible 00:08:26], it's going to continue to have a perfect track record on what's to come and what the future holds.

Chad Moore:
Yeah. And again, all of our faith is going to be tested.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
I mean right now, all of us on some level are going, "What the heck is going on?"

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
There's so many things that are out of our control. It's a window into my soul as a leader. You want to make wise decisions based on reality. You can be the wisest person in the world. but if you have the wrong information, you make a false decision.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
So the hardest part of a lot of what's going on is what's the right information?

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
Because I'm hearing one thing from over here and one thing from over here and then everybody's tribal and everybody's in their camp, and I'm going, "What is reality here?" So you pray and I talked to people who are actually in the known, instead of just looking at what's on Facebook or Instagram or whatever. So yeah. I mean I think our faith is being tested and I think we are going through a storm.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
And there's an anchor of hope for our souls and it's the certain hope of Jesus.

Robert Watson:
So as all this stuff has been going on, because you're in it too when it comes to the unexpected and stuff with schools and kids and all that stuff-

Chad Moore:
As we record this, it's the first day of school and the Gilbert system, because my kids are in the Gilbert school system, crashed.

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
So my 17-year-old is up at 7:30, so that's already-

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
"Welcome to school time," because we went this summer. And he gets ready and it's not working.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
So there's a meltdown, right? And then I go to make a phone call, they're not answering the phone, we're getting emails. So yeah. Stress.

Robert Watson:
Yeah. It's our kids' first day of school and the only thing I've heard is I got a text message from the school saying, "Don't call us, our phones are too busy."

Chad Moore:
Yeah. We're all trying to figure it out.

Robert Watson:
So during this time, there's I'm guessing moments that you felt hopeless, whether it's in a moment with the rollercoaster up and down. What are some of those moments that you go, "Yeah, I was feeling hopeless or struggling with that during the last six months?"

Chad Moore:
Yeah, all right. So I'm just going to keep it 100% real right now and be vulnerable. So we went on vacation, my wife and I and the boys go on vacation in July. It's this normal rhythm that we do. It's become a family tradition.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Good time to get out of town.

Chad Moore:
There's two things in the tradition. One is we go to the beach North of San Diego, we run a place there, and we watch Nacho Libre. So those two things. This year, we actually did not watch Nacho Libre because the world's crazy and we missed that tradition. But anyway, that makes me want to watch it right now. But I'm on vacation, I would come back a few times to work, maybe to record something or give some leadership to our staff or whatever. And every time I come back, I'm just coming back to the same problems.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
And it's like, "When is this thing going away?" And so on one level, I'm trying to rest which we all need that. That's rhythm alive. God actually commands us to do that. And so if you're like, "Pastors shouldn't take vacations, they only work one day a week," I love you, you're clueless. There's tons of pressure. It's every day, it's a 24/7 job if you allow it to be. So I needed to do that. So I'm trying to rest and at the same time, the stress of it all remains. And then I have a teenager and I had a conversation with my teenager, and it just put me over the edge. And I actually, to just confess this totally, we're at this condo in California and I just went back to [inaudible 00:12:13] bedroom and I just sat down and I just started to cry.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
And at first, I'm thinking, "This is because my teenager's a teenager and it's hard," but it wasn't. It was really just a culmination of all the stress I think that all of us are feeling.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
And that was the thing that tilted me over, and so emotionally now I'm letting it out, which was actually very helpful. And bluntly, I don't feel hopeless. The human soul has to have hope. We can live days without food. Actually, we can live a lot of days without food. We can live a few days without water. We can live some seconds without air. But the human soul begins to die the instant it loses hope.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
It's just the way God made us. So I haven't felt hopeless, but there have been times when it's just overwhelming and it's more, "When is it going to end?"

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
And right now, it's just persevere time.

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
Our faith's being tested, the Bible talks a lot about pressing on, marching on, walk on. I think we're in one of those kind of moments. And there's great hope. And so again, in this series, let's just take hold of it.

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
And we're going to be very practical. We're actually going to walk through the Lord's prayer. The top five things that make human beings feel hopeless are actually addressed in the Lord's prayer.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
And so I can't wait to share it with everybody. I can't wait for you to share what you're going to share Robert, and I think it's going to be very helpful.

Robert Watson:
So I was reading Romans 5 and in there, Paul's talking about suffering and he connects it to hope. I'll just read 5 Verse 3. It says, "Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings." So okay, this is great. We're suffering, yay. "Glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance, perseverance, character, and character, hope." So he makes this connection of suffering to perseverance and perseverance to character and character to hope. Talk through the connection between character and hope. How are those two things linked together?

Chad Moore:
That's a great question. When you were a kid... So when I was a kid, I'm a little older than you, but when I was a kid, they used to do these physical fitness tests.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
Do you remember that?

Robert Watson:
Oh yeah.

Chad Moore:
And the whole class is watching how many pull ups you can.

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
Right?

Robert Watson:
And you don't want to be the kid who just has to hang there and they have the timer to see how long you can hang there.

Chad Moore:
That's right. So I would put down my bag of Doritos and reach up and try to do as many pull ups as I could. And I'd be like, "Oh man, I hope the girls aren't watching it," and they always were. Physical fitness tests is there to evaluate where you are so that you can make improvements. Anybody that's ever gone to a gym and you've got a trainer, that's how they start you off. You go through the painful reality of what your body fat percentage is, right? Or however it works. I think right now, our faith is being tested. It's like when a tube of toothpaste gets squeezed, whatever's inside comes out. That's what's happening. And so in many ways as we walk through this test, this is a great opportunity to grow and get stronger, which is what the verse means.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
When you can rise up out of this situation and get the balcony view, which is God's view, which is the view the apostle Paul has when he writes that, is he's looking down on this situation and he's saying, "Okay, this is an opportunity for me to grow."

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
And so again, how do you do that? Well you take hold of the hope and it helps move you forward. But I think we're getting squeezed right now and what's inside is coming out. This is an opportunity to persevere, I've said this before, to grow through what you're going through.

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
But that's a decision. But everybody's irritated right now.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
I mean I'm irritated, I wear a mask and I want to be respectful, but it fogs up my glasses and I just look like an idiot.

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
We're irritated by all kinds of different things. And so right now, what does it mean as our faith is being tested not to give up, but to grow up and to persevere and get stronger.

Robert Watson:
Yeah. So one last question on this topic, and then I have another one for you.

Chad Moore:
One last and then another one.

Robert Watson:
Yeah, but it's a different topic.

Chad Moore:
Got it, okay.

Robert Watson:
So when it comes to hope for our people, people who call Sun Valley their home, how can they be givers of hope in the midst of all the craziness, all the uncertainty? Because the balcony view's easy when you can see beyond 24 hours.

Chad Moore:
Yeah.

Robert Watson:
I think it's hard to see beyond that. But how can we be ambassadors of hope, carriers of hope, givers of hope?

Chad Moore:
Well, first thing I would say is don't be a cheesy Christian.

Robert Watson:
Okay. Meaning?

Chad Moore:
Well one of the reasons why people want to punch Christians in the face is when somebody is telling their Christian friend, "I'm having this hard time," and the Christian friend says something like, "Well everything happens for a reason. God's good. How we can best encourage people that are having a hard time is to literally say, "This sucks and I love you."

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
"And I'm here for you." Jesus said it this way, carry each other's burdens, and in that, you fulfill the law of Christ. Jesus talked about carrying each other's burdens. That's what that means. This sucks. It's real. It really sucks. It's really hard. Biblical hope is not optimism.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
Biblical hope is the certain future that we have in Jesus. It's something different. Now, I'm for being an optimist because that's always better than being a pessimist.

Robert Watson:
Uh-huh (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
But really encouraging somebody to acknowledge that this sucks and this is hard, and I love you and I'm with you and I'm your friend.

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
And we're going to get through this together.

Robert Watson:
And both of those things together.

Chad Moore:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's acknowledging the pain instead of ignoring it with some cheesy cliche. It's acknowledging the pain. It's saying, "I'm here with you and I do believe in a certain hope." Yeah.

Robert Watson:
All right. One last question for you, if you could have anybody play you in a movie, who would you have play you?

Chad Moore:
The Rock.

Robert Watson:
The Rock. Explain why.

Chad Moore:
Because I wish I looked like The Rock. I mean that's pretty easy.

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
Maybe I should have put some thought. That just immediately popped out. My 11-year-old when we were in California was like, "Dad, if you could be any actor, who would you be?" And I said, "The Rock." And he said it and I said it actually at the same time. The Rock's just cool, man.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
Dwayne Johnson. Now, I don't want to get up and work out at 4:30 every morning and eat low carbs.

Robert Watson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chad Moore:
But other than that, I would want to be The Rock. Who would you be?

Robert Watson:
Oh man. Who would I have play me in a movie?

Chad Moore:
Yeah. Oh no. No, I changed it. I went with [crosstalk 00:18:55].

Robert Watson:
No, no, no. I want to know who would you have play you in the movie about Chad?

Chad Moore:
Oh, I got it wrong.

Robert Watson:
Yeah. That's okay. We all make mistakes.

Chad Moore:
Oh man. You know who I see myself in sometimes is Martin Sheen. I don't know if it's the hair or what?

Robert Watson:
It's got to be the hair.

Chad Moore:
He's older, so part of me is like obviously I want Brad Pitt to play me because of the likeness. But I see myself in Martin Sheen and the characters that he's played. He's short and he's got good hair. I mean what do you want?

Robert Watson:
All right, that was good.

Chad Moore:
That was awful.

Robert Watson:
People wanted to know that.

Chad Moore:
There was no prep work for this podcast today, just so everybody knows.

Robert Watson:
Yeah. It's real. It's raw.

Chad Moore:
Who would you want to play you?

Robert Watson:
I'd prefer to ask the questions and then just let you figure it out. [crosstalk 00:19:39] think through what would my response be if you countered this one-

Chad Moore:
You totally put me on the spot with that.

Robert Watson:
Yeah. No, I think-

Chad Moore:
So if I could be anybody, that's an actor, I'd be The Rock.

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
And probably I would want somebody like Martin Sheen. He's just cool.

Robert Watson:
Yeah.

Chad Moore:
But then part of me wants to say Brad Pitt.

Robert Watson:
Yeah. No I definitely, and this is not a resemblance thing, yeah. I think Brad Pitt's a good choice. I think I'd have to go with Brad Pitt.

Chad Moore:
For you? You're right. It's not a resemblance thing.

Robert Watson:
Whoa, Whoa. I'm just saying I think he's a good actor.

Chad Moore:
That's a beautiful man right there, I don't even care.

Robert Watson:
I think you would do a good job with the role.

Chad Moore:
Yeah. If he was in the room right now, I'd just have to stare at him. He's just that good-looking.

Robert Watson:
Well, let's make sure that makes it into the final cut of the podcast.

Chad Moore:
It's true, are you kidding me?

Robert Watson:
Give you a little preview. All right. Well thanks for taking time and sharing your thoughts.

Chad Moore:
If Brad Pitt was in the room right now, I would look over at him and how good-looking he is. And I'd think to myself, I wouldn't say it out loud because I love Jesus and want to represent him well, but if I saw how beautiful Brad Pitt, if he was in the room right now, I'd just think, "I hate that guy." I mean that's just honest. I'd be like, "What's the matter God? Why not me?" Anyway, let's move on.

Robert Watson:
He'll get old too.

Chad Moore:
We're talking about hope at church and it's important, and it'll help you, the hope you need.

Robert Watson:
All right. Well I didn't really think about how to sign off on a podcast, so I don't know how you want to end this other than you just saying thanks for taking time and talking about hope and we'll continue talking about it in the future, and some other stuff we got coming up.

Chad Moore:
Well I'll just make a leadership move. If you haven't signed up for the 40 Day challenge, we're challenging everybody to go on the journey with us when it comes to hope. Go to hope.sv.cc and take the 40 Day challenge, and we'll learn about the certain hope of Jesus together.

Robert Watson:
All right. Sounds good.

Chad Moore:
Thanks man.

Speaker 1:
Thanks for joining us this week on the Loving God, Loving people podcast. Make sure to subscribe to our podcast wherever you're listening to us so you'll never miss an episode. While you're at it, if you found value in this conversation, we'd love it if you left us a review or shared this podcast with a friend. Doing that will help us reach and help more people meet, know and follow Jesus. And lastly, you're always welcome to join us online or in person for one of our services every week at live.sv.cc. Thanks for joining us.